Marauder Tuning Information....

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Marauder Tuning Information....

Postby ateamray » Fri May 15, 2009 7:02 pm

While upgrading our Discoveries into the Match Prototypes we wrote a document explaining the manufacture of all of the updated parts (with illustrations) along with how to tune the adjustments (Hammer Tension, Hammer Stroke and Transfer Port adjustments). Crosman implemented these upgrades into the Challenger 2009 and the Marauder. This document is the tuning portion of that document which the Marauder was built around. This is the missing information from the owners manual. Enjoy.

http://ateam.host-ed.net/index.htm New valid weblink, edited on 4/5/11.

Ray and Hans ~ The "A" Team
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BTW....

Postby ateamray » Sat May 16, 2009 4:28 am

Our website is on a free server that does go down and also does get flooded so if you can't get to the sight check back later.
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Re: Marauder Tuning Information....

Postby Dave1899 » Mon May 18, 2009 5:21 pm

Thanks...just downloaded the PDF file :D

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Re: Marauder Tuning Information....

Postby sacshooter » Tue May 26, 2009 5:41 pm

ateamray wrote:While upgrading our Discoveries into the Match Prototypes we wrote a document explaining the manufacture of all of the updated parts (with illustrations) along with how to tune the adjustments (Hammer Tension, Hammer Stroke and Transfer Port adjustments). Crosman implemented these upgrades into the Challenger 2009 and the Marauder. This document is the tuning portion of that document which the Marauder was built around. This is the missing information from the owners manual. Enjoy.

http://ateam.100free.com/Crosman.htm

Ray and Hans ~ The "A" Team


Thanks,

I will move this post to the Marauder quick reference section.

On a side note, I’d like to thank you for the fine scope knob I ordered from you in January (I think) I was the one who sent you the scope knob from my centerpoint scope. Excellent workmanship, this was an awesome addition to my S410 Rifle :D


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Re: Marauder Tuning Information....

Postby Supercharged86 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:27 am

The A-Team Tuning Guide reprinted:

Tuning your Benjamin PCP with the use of the Hammer Spring Tension Adjuster and Hammer Stroke Adjuster
by Ray and Hans Apelles ~ The “A” Team
Caution: All testing should be done with muzzle pointed in a safe direction and into a safe backstop!!!!
Principles
Preparation:
There are many different ways a PCP may be tuned/adjusted. With the adjustable Hammer Spring Tension and
Adjustable Stroke you have virtually all you need to tune a PCP to your liking.
This Document will give you a brief introduction into adjusting and from there you will need to experiment to get the
performance you desire.
A certain amount of force is required by the hammer to open a valve to achieve a particular velocity with a given pellet.
This can be applied in a variety of ways. At one extreme the hammer can be moved a long distance (stroke) with a low
spring tension. At the other extreme the hammer can be moved a very short distance (stroke) with a very high spring
tension. And there is everything in between. Each method yields a different firing characteristic. It is up to the end user
to decide how he would like the gun adjusted to suit his needs and firing characteristic desires.
A long stroke, low spring pressure setting will give a very light cocking effort and long spring life. As the hammer opens
the valve, the pressure from the reservoir combined with the valve return spring pressure will close the valve. With a light
spring pressure the hammer is likely to be thrown back far enough (and off of the valve stem) that the hammer spring then
gets re-tensioned and the hammer gets thrown forward to hit the valve stem again and expel more air. This can be heard
and sounds as though the gun is burping out air for as many as 3 or 4 burps per shot.
A short stroke, high spring pressure setting will yield a heavy cocking effort and possibly shorter hammer spring life. As
the hammer opens the valve, the pressure from the reservoir combined with the valve return spring pressure will close the
valve. With a heavy hammer spring tension the hammer can't get thrown back so far (or possibly not even off the valve
stem) as to tighten up the hammer spring and throw the hammer back onto the valve to burp out more air. There is the
small possibility that the valve may also close slower, allowing more air to escape, because of the added hammer spring
tension keeping the hammer against the valve. This method of tuning usually yields a shorter sharper crack at discharge.
This method yields little to no Hammer Bounce.
The best balance between the long stroke low spring tension and the short stroke high spring tension is what is desired.
The following guide will help you achieve a setting that will give you the desired velocity. It will be up to the user to
achieve the balance they desire for an optimal setting. An optimal setting will give the highest efficiency yielding little to
no hammer bounce, reasonable cocking effort and good shot consistency.
It would be a good learning experience to try each method so as to learn the characteristics of each in your particular gun.
Start with the long stroke low hammer tension (which is very similar to the factory setting) and then try the short stroke
high hammer tension method. After learning each you can then find a balance between the two. When finding the
balance, if you can hear any air burp then you should adjust more to a shorter stroke higher hammer tension. You are
looking for that fine balance which can only come from experience. At the end of this document you will find a method for
determining charge pressure and shot count. It is advisable to do each for the 2 different methods so you can see the
difference in shot count and velocity curve which will give you an idea of the efficiency you have achieved in each.
After finding your setting for each method, you can determine that setting by inserting the adjustment wrenches and
counting how many turns to get back to the end stops. An example would be 7 turns in hammer spring, 5 turns in stroke
yields 850 fps with xyz pellet with a 2000 psi charge for 25 shots. Using this method you can always get back to a
particular setting while you are trying different settings.
A) Hammer Stroke Adjustment (HSA): With the gun assembled, adjust the hammer stroke to the longest stroke position.
This is done by inserting the Hammer Stroke Adjustment (HSA) allen wrench through the Hammer Spring Tension
Adjuster (HSTA), through the spring, into the hammer and catching the Hammer Striker. Then turn counter clockwise until
the Striker is to the fully retracted position. This is the start position for your adjustments.
B) Hammer Spring Tension Adjustment (HSTA): With the gun assembled, adjust the Hammer Spring Tension to the least
tension position. This is done by inserting the Hammer Spring Tension Adjustment (HTA) allen wrench into the end plug
and catching the HSTA and turning counter clockwise until the Hammer Spring Tensioner is to the fully retracted position.
This is the start position for your adjustments.
Revised 6/1/2009
C) If it is possible, make an identical replacement of the transfer port but change the ID to .110" or smaller. It is rare that a
PCP needs a transfer port larger than .110 to achieve 20 ftlbs. If you are trying to significantly reduce the power of (as an
example) the Discovery then you may go smaller yet. As an example, one that we tuned used a .105" transfer port to get
just below 20 ftlbs. The transfer port in the Discovery is large because it is designed to work with CO2 as well and needs
the larger size for the lower pressure CO2 gas. A Transfer Port that is large enough to give you the velocity you desire
but no more will give you a flatter velocity curve. It is not mandatory that you replace the transfer port but it is beneficial.
In the case of the Marauder, turn the transfer port adjustment all the way in (clockwise) and then turn it out 4 revolutions
(counter clockwise). This is the starting point for the adjustable transfer port which is now all the way open.
1) Set up a chronograph station with the assembled gun on sand bags in front of the chronograph so your readings will be
consistent. The Muzzle should be at least 18 inches from the first sensor to prevent incorrect readings.
2) Have initial adjustments of the PCP set to A, B and C above.
Note: you will initially be tuning for a particular charge range so you will need to charge the gun to the same pressure
each time and every 5 shots or so to maintain pressure during setting. Changes in charge pressure will give you changes
in readings that will confuse the issue. Once the settings are complete then you will determine correct charge pressure
and number of shots for that pressure.
3) Charge gun to a pressure that will be a little above the middle of your desired charge range. Example: If you are
looking to charge to 2000 psi and shoot to 1000 psi then charge to 1600 psi for testing.
4) Turn in (clockwise) the hammer tension until you feel tension on the hammer spring and then turn 1 more revolution in.
5) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
6) Increase hammer tension 1 turn.
7) Repeat 5 and 6 until your desired velocity is reached.
8) Shorten your hammer stroke 1/2 turn.
9) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
10) If your velocity stayed the same go to 8. If your velocity decreased go to 6.
11) Keep making adjustments (remember to charge every 5 shots) and chronographing until you are satisfied with the feel
of the shot cycle. This is learned through experience and can not be adequately explained.
4) Cock Hammer.
5) Turn in (clockwise) the hammer tension until you reach full coil bind and can not turn the hammer tension in any further
(gun may fire during this adjustment). Fire gun. Cock the hammer again. If it will not cock then turn hammer tension out
1/2 turn. Cock gun again. Repeat until gun will cock reliably.
6) Turn hammer tension out 2 to 3 turns.
7) Chronograph a shot to see where your velocity is.
8) Shorten your hammer stroke 1/2 turn.
9) Repeat 7 and 8 until your desired velocity is reached.
You may see that as the stroke is decreased the velocity will actually increase. This is a common phenomenon as a more
efficient setting is reached.
Adjustments:
Method 1
Method 2
Revised 6/1/2009
10) Keep making adjustments (remember to charge every 5 shots) and chronographing until you are satisfied with the feel
of the shot cycle and velocity. This is learned through experience and can not be adequately explained.
If your PCP has an Adjustable Transfer Port (as does the Marauder) then you can fine tune the velocity.
1) Turn the adjustment screw in ¼ turn at a time and chronograph a shot.
2) Make another ¼ turn adjustment and chronograph another shot.
Repeat the process until you reach your desired velocity.
During this process you may notice that the PCP gets quieter and blows less air but the velocity doesn’t change much.
This is common as you are achieving a more efficient setting. Your shot count will increase as well.
Another benefit of a PCP with an adjustable transfer port is that you can dramatically flatten a velocity curve by restricting
the transfer port and increasing the energy used to open the valve stem.
You will increase the usable charge pressure band and increase shot count in the process.
You will have to experiment with the settings to achieve this type of balance.
It will not be explained in detail here. It is mentioned here so you can strive to achieve such a balance as you are gaining
experience with the other adjustments.
Fine Tuning Velocity with an Adjustable Transfer Port
Revised 5/8/2009
Testing for charge pressure and shot count
Ray and Hans Apelles ~
1) Charge gun 100 psi over the test charge pressure and fire a shot through the chronograph. Record the charge
pressure and the velocity.
2) Repeat 1 until you notice a velocity drop of approximately 100 fps compared to your set velocity with your test charge
pressure.
3) Charge to the highest pressure recorded in 2.
4) Shoot an entire charge through the chronograph recording each shot. The velocities will slowly climb, reach a point
where they level off or peak and then decrease. Continue until the velocity decreases to match the velocity from shot #1.
5) Decide what is an acceptable velocity spread from your shot string. If shooting Field Target a 20 or 25 fps spread
should be your maximum and some even go to 35. If hunting or plinking a 50 or even a 100 spread may suit your needs.
Each individual must make that determination for their needs.
6) Examine your recorded shot string. Find the peak or leveled off velocity and subtract your acceptable velocity spread
from that peaked or leveled off velocity. This is the start and end velocity.
As an example: The velocity from shot #1 may have been 800 fps. The velocity peak was 900 fps. The acceptable
spread is 25 fps. The start and end velocity of the string should then be 900-25=875 fps.
7) Look down the recorded shot string till the first instance of 875 fps (from our example) is recorded. See what shot
number that 875 shot is.
From our example: shot #1 was 800 fps and shot #10 was 875 fps.
8) Charge gun to the pressure of shot #1 in the string and fire (from our example) 10-1=9 shots over the chronograph.
Shot #10 would now be the correct velocity, and the charge pressure that is in the reservoir is the correct charge pressure
to achieve it.
9) Determine the charge pressure in the reservoir: Using a filler or pump with a gauge, charge gun slowly until the needle
on the gauge stops or jumps. That stopping or jumping is also when you may hear the check valve open (a little click
sound). That point on the gauge is the pressure that is left in the gun and should be your determined charge pressure.
The gun should not be charged above that pressure for the way the hammer tension and hammer stroke is balanced.
The gauge on the gun itself can also be used to determine charge pressure. Always charge the gun to the point on the
gauge when you were about to take shot #10 from the example above. The Gun's gauge is not always accurate but it
should be fairly consistent. Being a small gauge it can be difficult to always hit the same spot. A magic marker mark or
wax pencil mark on the gauge may help. A piece of clear packing tape can be put over the gauge face and then cut to the
edge of the gauge. Then mark the tape with a magic marker and apply another piece of tape over the first to prevent the
mark from wearing off. The start and end pressures can be marked in this way so you can tell at a glance if you are within
your preferred pressure band.
10) Shoot 5 or 10 shots over the chronograph to remove some of the charge from the reservoir.
11) Charge gun to the determined pressure and shoot over the chronograph recording each shot. When the velocity from
shot #1 is reached after the velocity peaks that is the last usable shot from the charge. There may be a few shots after
that velocity is reached that match it so shoot and record a few more shots to see if the velocity drops. Cross off any shots
that are below your starting velocity once your ending velocity has reached your starting velocity. Count the number of
shots and that is your shot count for the charge for the way the hammer tension and stroke are balanced.
These are just starting points for tuning your PCP. If the charge pressure, velocity spread and shot count are not what
you would like then start over from the beginning at a different initial charge pressure. The more experience you get
following these basic procedures the more you will be able to wring out of your equipment.
Enjoy and shoot safe.
The "A" Team
Revised 11/24/2008
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Re: Marauder Tuning Information....

Postby Supercharged86 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:06 pm

Ok. The original post by The A-Team which included the link to their club's site (Eastern Field Target Competitors Club) which is where the "Tuning Guide" was located, had a outdated weblink and therefore was useless. I have since edited the link to their new address which is now valid; http://ateam.host-ed.net/index.htm. This should make it easier now. Cheers. Steve
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