First experience with a Marauder

[Informed Skeptic]

Over the past weekend I received a Marauder in .22 caliber that I had waited over seven weeks for. The business I bought the rifle through had tested five others before assuring me that if I waited I would end up with a better performing machine. I have been reading about the rifle on a few different forums since it hit the market. I was well aware of the problems in the first series of rifles, and kept the hype in check. After reading more and more positive reviews of the rifle, and that most of the production problems had worked themselves out, I felt that it was a safe investment and approached the initial testing of the rifle with realistic expectations.

The build quality impressed me. The rifle is clean, solid and well balanced. The bolt and magazine worked smoothly and flawlessly. I'm bigger than average, and the stock fit me well. It doesn't feel heavy or long either. The gauge on the rifle worked as well as the gauge on the fill tank and filling was simple and safe.

The rifle is very quiet. While that will be subjective and open to interpretation, you just have to hear it for yourself. The trigger is crisp, and a bit heavy from the factory, for obvious reasons. The shot cycle is quick, with little recoil or mechanical noise. Through two hundred shots, using JSB 15.9 and JSB 18.1, I never experienced a jam or misfeed. Loading the magazine moves quickly once you learn how it works.

I shot two strings over a chronograph. 75 shots with the 18.1 and 50 with the 15.9. I took three pages of notes along with pictures and finished up with a bit of a hunt. Throughout the chrono testing, I shot at a NRA 10m rimfire target to get an idea of pellet distribution. I set up at a laser range finder measured 50 yards, prone, and rested on a bag. The temperature was ~65F, relative humidity at ~75%, with little wind, constant from left to right at ~2-5MPH. This is an area that I shoot at almost every day and I know it well. I should mention that I was shooting through a new, high quality scope and rings and parallax was adjusted out.

I started the 18.1 JSBs at 3000psi and shot to 1400psi. In my assessment, pellet placement was not affected by MV or psi. In fact, the consistency of the MV was contradictory to the distribution of the pellet at the target. The 15.9 JSBs showed the same tendency for accuracy as the heavier pellet. I started the 15.9 test at 2900 and did not record a finish pressure. MV consistency was fair, and I will acknowledge that tuning would increase efficiency, ES and SD, and power output. Running through 1600 psi gave me a fair representation of speeds from 700 to 830, with the 18.1. Remarkably similar speeds were shown for the lighter pellet, as well.

In short, this Marauder proved itself to be the most inaccurate rifle I have ever used. Groups sizes at 33 yards were ~5" with both pellet weights. Removing the baffles and end cap to check for clipping, (there was no substantial clipping), and shooting a group without them installed showed no difference in accuracy.

I shoot daily. I shoot a 35 year old Sheridan pumper well enough to hit shotgun shells at 40 yards and a Diana 34 well enough to claim 1" groups at 45. Both are using open sights. I own a chinese break barrel springer, tuned by a well known professional, that makes 26FPE at the muzzle. As you can imagine, this rifle is not easy to shoot well. But group sizes at fifty yards with roughly the same FPE as the Marauder are at least half of what the Marauder posted at 33 yards. I am familiar with safe and effective shooting practices and am comfortable enough to say that I am qualified to judge this Marauder by it's performance. After shooting over two hundred quality pellets through the rifle, over a period of six hours, and using competent techniques, I have to say that I am utterly disappointed. The truth is that I cannot hit a three inch target at 33 yards with this rifle using ten quality pellets and a fair degree of skill.

I really like the Marauder and believe that it's powerplant can work well and lends itself to "home tuning". I really want to keep the rifle. But it needs to out perform a break barrel springer that makes the same energy before I can say it's worth half of what I paid for it. I don't believe that anyone who could shoot this rifle would be satisfied with it's performance. I also don't believe that this rifle is representative of Crosman. I have heard nothing but positive reports about Crosman customer service, and have read many reviews, including every review on pyramydair.com, that claim the Marauder is the rifle of the decade. Alternatively, if I had the resources, I would happily send the rifle to Mr. Greg Davis and probably never buy another PCP.

Luckily I am dealing with a very professional shop who values integrity and is devoted to customer satisfaction so I am confident that this matter will resolve itself satisfactorily. I know that a bad experience usually leads people to talk more about it than someone with a good experience. I didn't come here to bash the rifle. I genuinely and sincerely like the rifle. I only came here to share my story, possibly to those who are considering buying the rifle, and to get feedback from the forum members here as to what I should expect in the future, what they would do in my situation, and maybe how they worked around some negative aspects of their Marauders performance.

Thanks for your time.

[Supercharged86]

Dear I.S., I'm sure I speak for the majority here as were all sorry to hear of your recent experience and frustration of the Mrod. I certainly will not question your ability or experience with such a weapon and therefore must put the blame on the rifle itself. I do not work for Crosman, nor am I an engineer or experienced enough to understand the inner workings of this rifle as to speculate what the problem could be. However, for the vast majority of us, the Mrod has proven to be a very adequate air rifle given it's price point. Trust me I'm not making any execuses for Crosman (as I have nothing to gain from that) but it's obviously not a L.W. equipped Theoben, etc. priced at 4 times the amount. However, given your results it's apparent that something is dramatically wrong. I (we) hope that your able to get the problem rectified and continue to be a Mrod family member for years to come. Good luck. Cheers. Steve

[Ben cook]

To First experience , Remember that if purchased from Pyramid Air you have a 30 day 100 % satisfaction guarantee.
Good luck, I can say that from what i read there is something wrong. My Mrod shoots CP's at 40 yards with 1/4 inch groups.
B

[Informed Skeptic]

Thanks for the feedback.

Like I mentioned in the original post, the shop that I am working with is going to make sure that I get a rifle that performs as well as can be expected. Apparently, there is a problem with the rifle that is exacerbated by shipping and we are going to try to mitigate that possibility with a different approach.

I also previously mentioned that I believed the first Marauder I received was not the typical Crosman product. I am heartened by the stories of satisfied Marauder owners. I, too, will gladly report back here of above average performance, if and when that occurs.

After reading more of the forum here I see that I am not the only one suffering through the Crosman quality control debacle. I'll be receiving the second rifle this weekend and I can only hope that this one will do the job.

[Teryx]

Welcome Skeptic!
There are some possible issues, like barrel contact with the barrel band. Many of these things can be easily taken care of, and there is nothing really wrong with the rifle. Of course, there are problem rifles and I appreciate your taking the time to post bad news. I think generally there is a reluctance to do that when so many have good experiences, but it helps us understand the bigger picture. If you have read any of my thoughts on matter, I have a strong suspicion that the average accuracy from "untuned" rifles is not as good as it may seem. As for the barrel contact, check that on your new rifle first thing. If you have contact, that will hose your accuracy, but it is easily fixed and we can help with that.
Teryx

[Informed Skeptic]

Thanks Teryx.

I too am a little skeptical, ahem, and the disparity between most of what I read here and what I read elsewhere is a bit confusing. I didn't come here specifically to stir the hornets nest,but I did want feedback from the most outspoken group of Marauder owners on the net. Besides the rare post describing problems such as mine, the majority of the users here are satisfied owners and seemingly glad to share their experiences.

The barrel band did show an even gap around the shroud. That is one of the first things that I checked. After that I checked the shroud. There were faint streaks, 1MM width or less, on the ID of the end cap with nothing on the baffles. I honestly couldn't diagnose the problem with the normal tactics and after a short discussion of the issue with the shop, they decided to try again with a new rifle. Tomorrow I'll receive the rifle and will test again Sunday. I hope everything works out as I'm very excited to start tweaking the powerplant and see what the rifle and I can do.

[Teryx]

Hard to say what it was. I think this group is enthusiastic but realistic too. Here's a short list of stuff I would check or do with the new one.
1. Check for barrel band contact
2. hand snug the shroud against the reciever
3. Clean the barrel from the breech
4. Center the baffles in the shroud. I use one wrap of scotch tape on each baffle, being careful not to overlap the tape. Wipe them with alcohol first.

Teryx

[Informed Skeptic]

Thanks again Teryx.

I have a feeling that you and I would get along well.

I received the second marauder Friday and the shop that I am working with shipped it in a hard case in an attempt to circumvent any possible issues related to a rough shipping experience. After giving the rifle a once over and mounting the scope, I went to the same shooting area where I tested the first rifle. As I posted before, groups of 5 to 10 shots were from 4"-8" ctc with the first rifle, regardless of choice between JSB 15.9, JSB 18.1 and a hopeful try with Crosman Field Pointeds. Unfortunately, this second rifle was no better. I had little optimism that this rifle would perform better than the last and skipped the chrono testing.

I shot from the prone position, rested on a soft bag, and through the same scope as the last time. A Leupold RX-1000 showed 50 yards from the muzzle. Weather conditions were 65F, 80%RH, and a slight constant breeze. Starting air pressure was 2500psi. This rifle shot well at the shop with 18.1s so I started with them. The first magazine posted a 6" group with no apparent pattern. I shot one more magazine with the same results and increased the pressure to 2700psi. No improvement. One shot was 3 mils high, 2 mils right, then the next shot was 1 mil low 4mils right. It was comical how inconsistent the shots were. I imagined someone hiding in the bushes somehow manipulating the pellet with a remote control. At one point I was actually laughing at how far away the shots were landing from each other.

A friend was testing a new FX Whisper T-12 with the smooth twist barrel with a half dozen different pellets next to me so I loaded half of a mag with JSB Monsters. The FX couldn't shoot those very well and he said that this marauder shot that pellet better than the MCT we were shooting a couple weeks ago. Maybe 2.5" ctc. I tried Kodiaks with the same results as the JSB 15s and 18s. Crosman Field Pointeds shot slightly better, if 4" groups instead of 6" groups can be seen as an improvement.

I removed the barrel band and shot a magazine of JSB 18.1s and 15.9s. No improvement. I removed the end cap, baffles, (no clipping), and the shroud and shot a magazine of 18.1s. No improvement. The rifle is still incredibly quiet without the shroud, baffles and end cap though. I carefully put everything back together and slowly spun the shroud looking for something, anything. I noticed that the shroud had a bit of a wobble and tried to orient the wobble at 12 o'clock, and center the barrel band set screws. No improvement. An even gap, except for contact at six o'clock, could be seen between the barrel band and the shroud.

Keep in mind that this rifle shot well at the shop at 25 yards with JSB 18.1s. I moved a target to 25 yards and couldn't shoot better than 3", with no pattern. I shot down to 2000psi and saw no improvement. Then, mostly because I was mentally exhausted and really couldn't have lower expectations of this machine, I loaded a magazine with Beeman Silver Stings and was pleasantly surprised with a group size of ~2" with six of the ten shots at 50 yards. Unfortunately I only had ten of them on hand.

At the end of the day, a big jack rabbit stops within 40 yards of my friend and I, and without hesitation I reach for my rifle. My $135 shipped Refurb Diana 34 with peep sights that is. That single fact should leave you with a volume worth of my conclusion on this rifle. When presented with a shot that is a gimme with just about anything you could hand me, I didn't even think about using the marauder. This rifle has disappointed me so greatly that I didn't experience a single bit of excitement or anticipation during the four hours I was behind it today. Does shooting your rifle make you smile? Do you know the feeling of pulling off a great shot, mostly because of your skill? Can you predict where most of your shots will hit with a fair deal of success? I shot this marauder over a hundred times today and not once did any of those examples occur.

Conclusion: I shot JSB 15.9 and 18.1, Kodiak 21.1, Crosman Field Pointed 14.3, Silver Stings 14.5, JSB Monster 25.4, and NONE of them grouped better than ~2" at 50 yards. I mounted a Zeiss Conquest scope and ruled out a scope issue. As a control of sorts, I shot one magazine through the FX and although I had a POI shift halfway through the mag, (I was at 1200psi) I shot two ragged single hole groups at ~1/2" apiece. This is the second marauder that has performed TERRIBLY and I am now embarrassed to call the shop because of the hassle. This rifle was the result of months long research and planning and I made the purchase through a reputable and professional shop with realistic expectations, (50 yards and ~1" ctc).

After seeing how much effort that I've put into this rifle, for completely unacceptable results, my friend is dead set that the marauder is basically a losing proposition. He was just as excited as I was before the first magazine spread itself across an 8 1/2" X 11" target. Before he left today, he handed me another 10M target sheet for my Diana 34 v. marauder comparison and chuckled, "It's not like you'll get much use out of this with the marauder". He believes that Crosman designed the marauder to shoot well ONLY with Crosman Premiers. I contend that paying $35 dollars for 625 pellets is a deal breaker. If this is true, and I'm not so naive to believe that anyone will ever admit it, that bit of barrel magic is beyond my imagination. I don't have the resources for a different PCP and if this rifle, and the one before it, are indicators of a typical Crosman product, I'll kindly ask for my money back and pass the word. I can imagine that Crosman couldn't offer much, for obvious reasons, and the possibility of trying a third marauder doesn't look good.

What else can I do? Can anyone here offer a solution? Is a 4"group at 50 yards an acceptable and realistic benchmark for a marauder?

[Supercharged86]

Sorry to hear the second rifle it' much better. The only thing I can tell you is that I experienced a similar situation with Beeman Silver Arrow 11.6's, 3" groups at only 10 yds. The problem was I was over powering them at 950+. So after learning that someone else had good luck with them in a Gamo springer, I did just that. Well the chrony had them going only 665 out of my springer but they were grouping very well. So I turned down the Mrod to 675 and wouldn't you know it, .25" groups at 25 yds from a prone bipod rest. So the only thing I can suggest at this point is chrony your shots and see if there's any improvement over a wide range of velocities. Some pellets just don't perform well at "any" given velocity. Good Luck. Steve

[Informed Skeptic]

Thanks Steve.

I realize that you have to pay to play, and that this rifle, more so than most, is meant for people that don't mind tinkering with the machine. My time is free, but pellets are not. Did you ever consider driving across town for gas that was maybe 20 cents cheaper per gallon? That's where I'm stuck now. It doesn't really matter to me which pellet this marauder shoots well because the others are either cost prohibitive or won't work for what I need them for. Should I spend the extra money on Crosman pellets, just to relegate this rifle to occasional use?

I'm not a collector, for many reasons, and my rifles are purchased to be treated like any other tool. I take meticulous care of my tools, and most things that I own, and I understand that use equals wear. I usually shoot five hundred pellets a month, through a couple of break barrels and the go-to Sheridan pumper. I can handle that budget. I understand that if I want to shoot more than what I can afford, something has to give. Spending forty dollars a month on pellets isn't a viable option right now and if I'm limited to less than that, I want to make sure that the diligence has been done and I can now reap the benefit of the investment. In short: when testing and tweaking is done, I want to hit what I'm aiming at with the first shot, or at least know that the miss is mine.

I guess that the initial investment is going to be deeper than I first predicted. I may have to buy different pellets because this rifle is "fussy". However, the ballistic coefficient of the JSB pellets is the number one reason that I prefer my rifles to shoot them well. For example, the BC of the Beeman Silver Stings is less than half of the JSB in the same weight and that equates to real numbers and even affects the physical limits of the scope at certain ranges. In general, the JSB pellets have a better BC than most pellets available so they perform better at the long ranges that I shoot at (100+ yards). They are usually less expensive also. It would be great if this marauder shot Crosman Premier Hollow Points well. A tin of 500 Hollow points will cost me about $8. But those pellets don't perform well at <50 yards and I'm not in a position to quantify a considerable investment in a "plinker".

Please keep the feedback coming. I really want to make this work.