MarauderAirRifle.com

[unirdna]

Hello Marauder Pioneers. Great forum! I've been reading every thread.

But, I was unable to find an answer to a question re: using CO2 as a source for the Marauder - specifically CO2 from a welding tank (5 lb tank in my case). Is this possible? Is there a fitting adapter?

Because CO2 is stored in liquid form (but, comes out of the tank as gas), I would think that you could get many many more charges out of a 5 lb CO2 tank, when compared to a SCUBA tank. Also, the CO2 tank is about 1/10th the size. It seems like a perfect gas sourcs...so, why can I not find any info? Me thinks there may be a problem...

Any advice or points to pertinent links would be greatly appreaciated. And again, great job on the creation of this forum!

- Ted

[sacshooter]

I don't know much about welding co2 tanks.

Some of the larger co2 tanks have a neck or straw that dips down to the bottom of the co2 tank, so when you turn the valve liquid co2 comes out not just the gas on top of the tank. If your tank has this then you can fill with the tanking standing upright. If it doesn’t then you will need to hold the tank upside down as you fill.

With co2 your velocity will be lower, and since the pressure of the co2 changes with the outside temperature your velocity will go up and down with the temperature. This makes it good for plinking because you get lots of shots, but makes it hard to hit 1 inch circles at 50 yards consistently throughout the day because your POI will rise and fall with the temp

You can also fill your Marauder using paint ball tanks using an adaptor that Crosman sells:

http://www.crosman.com/airguns/accessories/pcp/FAH001

If this solution works well for you then you can search ebay for co2 fill station

And find fill hose that will let you fill paintball tanks form your big co2 tank.

Then use the paintball tanks to fill the marauder, that way you can easily take air with you in the field if needed.

Hope this helps.

Roger

[unirdna]

That did help, Roger. Thank you.

It seems that a system does exist for me to use the CO2 gas from my 5 lb cylinder. I'll start with what you've shown me, and go from there. Hopefully a direct method (bypass the "middle" paintball tank) exists. But, if not, this may do okay, as well. I'm just hoping to avoid using/buying a pump.

edit: My 5lb tank does not have a straw mechanism. It is designed to expell CO2 gas from an upright position. Strangely enough, I use these tanks (along with two-stage regulators) to supplement CO2 gas to my aquariums - it makes aquatic plants grow like crazy. I never expected to be able to accomodate two hobbies using such an obscure piece of equipment.

[sacshooter]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paintball-CO2-Fill-Station-Tank-Bottle-Refill-Kobalt_W0QQitemZ370232835113QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item563398bc29&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


I think you would will need to remove the fitting on the end of the hose that attaches to a paintball co2 tank and replace it with a female foster quick connect to allow you to connect it to the marauder.

Roger

[unirdna]

Ahh, good. I get it. That thing is designed to transfer liquid CO2 from a bulk tank to a paintball cylinder. It will easily be strong enough to transfer CO2 gas. It has a bleed-valve, and the proper fitting (large hex nut) for a standard CO2 tank. That all makes sense.

Now the hard part... finding the proper fitting for the Marauder, and assembling that fitting to the refill station. Do you know if that is a standard piece of equipment, or if Benjamin designed it themselves. If this works out, it could be a massive $$ saver for all Marauder owners. A refurb 5 lb CO2 tank costs around $60, and fills cost $10. The paintball refill station costs $30 on eBay, and that final part (if it exists), can't cost too much. That would bring the total price to around 100 bones, and you could get 1,000's of shots on a single fill.

I'm sure someone else has thought of this... Why can I not get Google to help me, I wonder...

[unirdna]

I intend to order my gun from Mac1 this week. From the website, it looks like Tim knows a thing or 10 about filling PCP guns, and how to make various adapters. If he has a solution for me, I'll post it here for all.

Again, thanks for your direction, Roger.

[GoPostal]

This is what I'll use when I want to go CO2.



Pure Energy sold this one, but there's a dozen different brands on Ebay. CGA CO2 Bulk fitting to Foster QD that snaps onto a CO2 Paintball adapter.

You either need a "Liquid Pull" CO2 tank..or if not available, just turn a vapor pull one upside down. CO2 tanks come with a "Dip Tube" for liquid pull, or not for a vapor pull type. The peep's at the welding supply store will know what you mean if you tell 'em you need a liquid pull tank.

If you want to fill the Mrod straight off the bulk tank, just hook up the QD fitting & fill, or if you want portability too (for those 500 shot day's *dreamer*)
fill a paintball 12 oz or 20 oz tank with CO2 and transfer it later with an auxilary whip extension. - see pic #2

[ZanderJay]

I have been using CO2 for three years now. One day, while I was walking back to the welding store to check if there was a new CO2 tank, I was given an old beat up in exchange. With it, I came to conclude that getting an exchange is one sign of good service.

[jasonp]

Hello,
I thought I would chime in and help out with some answers about CO2 (before you get your checkbook out). I have been dealing with CO2 (with Paintball) including bulk fill stations and filling smaller tanks for over 10 years. But in no way am I an expert and I really hope that this post raises some eyebrows and gives us more answers from Crosman.

First with any bulk fill station (I prefer a 20# bottle) you need to request a "Dip Tube" as several posts mention so you get liquid not gas. If you are working with a standard (non-dip tube) bottle you can turn it upside down but it's a bugger trying to hold it like that and can be unsafe if you drop it on the valve . I have seen special slings made to cradle the fill stations upside down to make it easier. The fill nipple on the Marauder is a standard male quick disconnect that we have used in paintball so if you have a paintball shop in town they can get you any parts you need for the female disconnect.

Often when you see someone filling a paintball tank from the bulk bottle they will fill a small amount and then blow off the gas in the tank to get the tank ice cold (the expanding co2 being released causes the tank to frost). This process is helpful to reduce the pressure in the paintball tank (effectively chilling it) because a tank that has gas already in it at room temperature will not allow any more gas to enter as the pressure is already even with the bulk tank. I hate to waste gas blowing it off to cool it so I freeze by paintball tanks before I fill them. This seems to work great and will give you a 100% or better fill on the tank. You need to be careful not to over fill them. It is possible to fill a 20oz. CO2 tank to upwards of 24oz. of fill and that is a bad thing. Many people that fill them will weigh the tank before and after they fill them so they know how much liquid CO2 is in the tank (a 12oz CO2 tank should weight 12oz more when filled). There is a safety "burst disk" in a paintball tank that is designed to rupture at 2200PSI so the bottle doesn't explode. You can get burned by the CO2 escaping if you are too close to the tank when the safety blows. This is very rare and only happens if the bottle is heated to extreme temperatures (like in a car window in the summer) or if it's overfilled and the temp rises. (Here is a link to a chart showing the fill/temperature/pressure info.. http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technic ... /co2pv.gif )

Crosman has plenty of experience with CO2 but they normally have the little pre-charged canisters in various sizes that are already filled. You simply slip a new one into your pistol or rifle and throw them out when you are done. I see several problems with the Marauder being a "dual fuel" rifle. First problem is that CO2 is a gas and has a working pressure of just below 1000 PSI (in a paintball tank or bulk tank). It can be stored as a liquid under pressure but "boils off" and becomes gas and this gas is very temperature sensitive. Looking at the graph a tank (any size) filled to 100% capacity and an ambient temperature of 80 degree's puts you just below 1000 PSI. As you use the CO2 the tank will start to cool down or freeze further lowering the pressure. Second transferring liquid CO2 into the Marauder will be a problem unless you can blow off some CO2 and frost your gun up (I don't recommend this as it can freeze O-rings) or freeze it somehow (I'm not going to put mine in a chest freezer for 2 hours just so I can fill it up). I was only able to get about 750 PSI of CO2 pressure into my rifle and I think that was gas not liquid. Crosman says that CO2 will work but this rifle is designed to work between 2000- 3000 PSI and I don't see how we are going to get anywhere near that with CO2 (it's a math deal).

So let's hope someone out there has more info and can clue me in to a solution to our filling issue. There is the option of Nitrogen tanks that have a working pressure of 2000-2200 PSI working pressure or large tanks that will go to 6000 PSI. But the smaller tanks are as large as a scuba and those larger tanks weigh over 300lbs and you would need a very expensive regulator to reduce the pressure to the Marauders range.

So before you run out to Central Welding Supply and get a bulk tank you might want to get that high pressure hand pump and be happy that you didn't learn the hard way that a Marauder at 750 PSI is not what you had in mind..

Again I really hope that there is a solution to this deal as I would love to shoot targets in the yard and fill with CO2 but it seems that there are some issues to be ironed out..

Happy Hunting!!
JasonP