Is the War Valve and NB Hammer really worth the time?

[Chago]

All,
I currently have a Gen 1 .22 Mrod and I am looking to increase the muzzle energy. The set-up is as follows: Jim Gaska Hammer forged barrel, AGE Regulator, Wickedair Barrel Band and 10 lb. hammer spring. The accuracy is great but I would like to increase the muzzle energy (+35 FPE). I have read several of the threads on the War Valve and HB Hammer. Just wondering if adding these custom components would increase the power of my Mrod. Cost is not an issue, I just want to know if its worth my time.

Thanks,
Chago

[SHOOTINIT]

TRY OPENING UP THE TRANSFER PORT FIRST

[Bullfrog]

I cannot speak specifically to the WAR valve and hammer because I've never tried them. However, more generally hi-flow valves are definitely worth the time. Not only do they greatly increase your power potential but they also greatly increase your air usage efficiency at lower power levels. This is really what I think makes them worth it. If you max your factory gun out now you can get maybe a clip of shots at near 50fpe. With my hi-flow valve and supporting mods I can get 3 clips with a tight extreme spread just above 50fpe (well actually you do have to take into account that I also have a Gaska tank extension that increases my air tank size). But still I get far more shots than what I would have with a factory valve.

If price isn't an issue go for it. Personally I don't like how high priced any of the custom valves are becoming (all of them, not signing out any particular maker because they are all high). Yet that's supply and demand. When I got my custom valve years ago the concept of changing out the marauder valve was still new and I got my valve for $30 more as an experiment by the maker. But hey, if you got the money, go for it. A good valve is the best peformance mod you can make for your Mrod.

[Bullfrog]

Oh, I just re-read your post and see you have a regulator. That regulator is probably your biggest impediment to increasing FPE. It probably has an upper limit as to how high of a PSI it can be set to work on. HOWEVER, some of the hi-flow valves deliver hi velocities at low pressures. I was able to get 70fpe at or around 2400psi before. Also you're dealing with a .22 not a .25 so perhaps you wouldn't need as high of an operating pressure to get a good FPE.

Before you do anything find out what the upper PSI limit of your regulator is and make a decision whether its worth tearing into the internals of your gun. You might already have a good setup that you don't want to disturb.

[Chago]

Bullfrog,
The upper limit on the AGE Regulator is 2200 PSI (152 Bar). I am definitely in need of a more efficient gun. I am currently pumping her up my hand, so the more shots per fill, the better. I get about 40 shots with a 3000 PSI fill at a velocity of 795 ft/s (ES >7 ft/s, SD >2). I'd like to be at 900 to 950 ft/s with the same ES, maintain the accuracy and get at least 50-60 shots per fill. Maybe its wishful thinking but I think it can be done with a little tweaking. I am thinking that the new valve and hammer will do the trick.

Thanks,
Chago


P.S.
The cost is kind of high but what can you do?

[SHOOTINIT]

You may not have enough air volume behind the regulator.

[Chago]

Shootinit,
Mods were worth it but you were right, I don't have enough air volume. I was able to achieve 40 shots at 900 ft/s. Just shy of the 50 I was looking for. I am looking into the WAR extension.

I did notice that the JSB 18.1 shoot a lot better at this speed.

Happy Shooting,
Chago

[AlanMcD]

Chago,

It is not clear to me - did you install the WAR valve and hammer to get this performance?

I am curious as I have a similar set up, but with a modified valve for high flow and a Motorhead lightweight hammer. My AGE reg is set at the initial settings of ~1850 psi, and I too get 40 shots from mine with JSB 18.1 pellets at 900 fps - but only with my LW Poly barrel. The Hammer Forged is simply less efficient (due to the tighter bore) and I lose about 30 fps with it in the gun. So I never shot my HF barrel that fast yet.

I have wondered what I might gain with the WAR valve, but figure it would not be much over my current modifed valve (but admittedly at least somewhat better). I am good with the 40 shots from mine, but if I could get the efficiency up a bit, I might be able to get the HF barrel up to 900 fps too, which I can't right now without cranking up the reg pressure and losing many shots, so I have no testing results there yet.

How did your HF barrel perfrom in terms of accuracy at 900 vs. lower speeds?

[Chago]

AlanMcD,
I upgraded from a stock valve and hammer to a WAR valve and NB hammer. I removed the regulator (which is for sale). I was told that having it in the set-up would screw things up. The WAR valve and Regulator do not complement one another. I also have a JG hammer forged barrel,WAR De-pinger, 10 lb hammer spring and WAR barrel band.

The goal was to achieve 900-950 f/s with JSB 18.1 gr. pellets and a shot count of 50-60. I was never able to do so with the AGE Regulator (set to 2200 PSI), but to be fair, I also did not want to modify the transfer port or the barrel port (very expensive barrel to be messing with). The new set-up gave me the muzzle velocity I was looking for but fell short of the shot count. I hope to increase the shot count by adding a reservoir extension. FYI, I didn't modify the barrel port with the new set-up. I just replaced the Stock transfer port with the one the came with the WAR Valve.

The reason for wanting to increase the velocity was not to improve accuracy but to increase the muzzle energy while maintaining/improving accuracy. I primarily use my MRod for hunting. I have been having some issues with taking down small game with a heart and lung shot when a head shot did not present itself. I zeroed it in this past weekend at 36 yards with the new set-up and had a really tight group, an over sized .22 hole, with the exception of the first shot. For some reason, the first shot of the day is usually off. Warming up the barrel maybe, i don't know. I do sort, wash and lube my pellets.

As for as a one to one test on low to high velocity accuracy, I wouldn't be the guy to ask. And as for a barrel comparison, LW barrel vs hammer forged barrel, I again wouldn't be the guy to ask. I'm really happy with the results from the WAR products and JG barrel. I wouldn't mind trying a LW barrel in the futre.

[AlanMcD]

Thanks Chago - that clears up a lot.

I do have both the LW Poly and Jim's Hammer Forged barrels. The Hammer Forged is clearly more tolerant of different head sizes in the JSB 18.1s, but when I sort and feed the r head size into the Poly that it prefers, it seems to beat the HF in terms of accuracy - plus the Poly gives me another 30 fps over the HF with the same set up. I'm not sure which one will win long term and stay in the gun, but I do like both. The Poly is also louder since it takes up more shroud space.

Both have the barrel hole at 0.165" - I had Jim make the HF that way, but I did the LW myself. It was not that difficult, but it is a delicate procedure, and I did it with hand tools and it came out great (I practiced on the stock barrel first). If you can get it done, it will help your efficiency and you could pick up a few shots.